Speaking of enforcement

There'sOne! · **Joined:** Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:58 pm **Posts:** 38

Trivia answer, JOHN DOE!

targa2 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:51 pm

I'm glad you looked it up. Really it has little if nothing to do directly with it other than to cite an example of the seriousness of the duty they perform. It is also to remind people of whom it is they serve. Statutes are not meant to be read with emotion. The doctrine of "strict literalism" cited in several supreme court cases says so. " The management and control of ANYTHING, refuses or fails to deliver "etc. Are they in control or management of the fisheries act? and if I "DEMAND "they deliver it are they obligated to do so. If you read the act with the doctrine of strict literalism and leave out the emotion there is reason to believe they must. The act says the management and control of ANYTHING. I would just like it when I tell them about specific violations by specific, easily identified people they would actually do something about it besides ask to see my licence one more time.

targa2 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:02 pm

There's one cheated on the test . I have asked him that one before.

firetiger · **Joined:** Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:59 am **Posts:** 9

The Act states "fails to deliver it to a person who is authorized to demand it". You are not 'authorized' to demand it. I don't quite know what you mean by "in control or management of the Fisheries Act", COs' are enforcement officers, they don't "control" anything. Parliament is the only body which has authority to enact laws, the courts mearly interpret the meaning of the issue at hand and how it applies to the case in question in consideration to other things like the Bill of Rights, etc.. Public servants, COs', do not work for 'you', or 'I', the only one responsible for their actions and who is in 'control' of their duties is the Minister.

targa2 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:35 pm

So then who is authorized to demand from a public servant. Apparently not the PUBLIC they SERVE. You may be right firetiger. I am simply searching to make sense of what seems to be nonsense. I don't, however ,need a court to " interpret" the law for me . The "rules of english construction " are the true interpreter of the law. Laws are not written "willy nilly" so as to be so arbitrary in their meaning that they need interpretation. If one understands the meaning of the individual words according to their context, within the meaning of the act in question, there need be no interpretation. The doctrine of "strict literalism" says so.I have studied hundreds if not thousands of hours of various aspects of law. The more I learn the more clear I get on some things and the more confused I get on others. Heres a test for you. Define the word INCLUDES. If you know as much as you appear to know I will be interested to hear your take on this word. This word alone has caused more controversy among people studying the law than any other in my estimation.

furious · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:47 pm

3 Officers to cover that large an area.

Hmmm..... I wonder if the real issue is they are terribly understaffed. That's quite obvious, hence the discussion.

However, while I would like to see more C.O.'s on the water and in the field, it is unfair to compare them to anything American. Of course there are lots of C.O's in the States, there is also way more people per capita that hunt and fish down there.

Let's face it, strategy and effective law enforcement can't be combined with public satisfaction. There are too few officers, too large an area and too many different seasons going on this time of year. I do think that they do nab a lot of criminals though. How else can they explain spending so much time in court?

C.O.'s at Glenora may have been getting ready for the 1 week controlled deer hunt in Prince Edward County this week. Or maybe spending a few days with their families before they would be working long days all week. Who knows.

It's unfortunate that the C.O.'s are the people who have to take the heat, but consider this.

How many times have heard a story about someone getting nabbed by the C.O.'s for something minor? How often do they get off with out a fine? I think you'll find a cop is much more likely to let something slide.

A friend of mine fished with a fellow last summer. This fellow left his licence in his truck. When they were checked on the water he was charged. My friend who owned the boat is a Park Warden, he has a lot of the same duties as a C.O. and a cop while he is at work he can arrest, detain, charge and search people. This fellow still got the ticket, and they knew my friend and what he did for a living!!!

By the way they don't drive around in a marked boat anymore. It's green, aluminum and very quiet. They snuck up on me twice last year.

I guess what I am driving at is, not only would we as sportsmen (and women) like to see more officers and better tactics. I think if you asked the C.O.'s they would like to see more officers as well.

targa2 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:25 am

The U.S. has 10 times the population. 10 time the users of the resource etc etc. So again the arguement holds no water. I repeat" the practice of checking the same licence holders over and over again is pointless". I would estimate that not 1 in 100 people that ever fish do so without a licence and if they do it is once a year and whoopy do if they get away with it. This practice is tantamount to charging bank robbers with speeding tickets. Bill C36 isn't law yet so until it is ( and maybe after) I will continue to criticize a wasteful goverment. It's funny how only the business owners I talk to really agree on these type of issues.

cottager · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:33 am

It appears there's no posting from hard water fisherman here. I for one found the COs' to be paired up every weekend on ATVs around Sherman's point and up to and including the ferry and Picton harbour issuing tickets on a daily basis. Yes, daily. Why then do they only appear at ice time? I also seen them the weekend of the opener for walleye. Is this like the ride program at Christmas. The heck with the rest of the year but get them when they're most concentrated. Any ideas?

DanElliot · **Joined:** Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:59 am **Posts:** 4329

The following 2 media releases were taken from the " Ontario Conservation Officers Association" website. http://www.ocoa.ca

Cottager has picked up on something with his observations. There is a small satellite MNR office on the site where I work and from time to time I chat with the Co's. The enforcement blitz is now a common practise. On opening weekend they bring in Co from across the provience and do a real blitz. The same happens else where. Simcoe for example has had the Quinte Co's down there helping with a blitz down that way. Anyway, have a read and visit their website.

The one suggestion I would make to everyone is to put the following phone number into your cell phone phone book. 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). I have and you dont have to stick around and wait. Simply do your part and make the call.

Conservation Officers Call On New Government to Increase Operating Funding
As Ontario's hunters enjoy the 2003 hunting season, the Ontario Conservation Officers Association (OCOA) is calling on Premier Dalton McGuinty and Natural Resources Minister David Ramsay to immediately increase the MNR Enforcement program funding levels to ensure that fish and wildlife are adequately protected this fall, and in future seasons.

"Years of fiscal neglect, coupled with a recent budget constraint have reduced the ability of Ontario Conservation Officers to provide effective enforcement of the complex laws that protect our natural resources" states OCOA President Jim McMullen. "This is of great concern to our association, and to the thousands of responsible outdoor enthusiasts, especially during the fall season which is the busiest time across Ontario for the 200+ Conservation Officers." Ontario's Conservation Officers are kept extremely busy enforcing the hunting regulations during the bear and moose seasons in the north, and the deer season in the south.

"Funding levels in recent years have been reduced to the point where officers are now having to share vehicles because they cannot afford to repair or replace the existing fleet, again, reducing the ability to effectively patrol the vast areas they are responsible for" continued McMullen. Throughout the 1990's, overtime budgets virtually disappeared, directly affecting the ability for officers to respond to complaints or to continue complex investigations at the end of their shift.

In southern Ontario, operating budgets for the enforcement program have been reduced to the point that Districts have had to leave vacant Conservation Officer positions unfilled for, in some cases, 3 and 4 years. This has essentially reduced the number of Conservation Officers in the field and the officers remaining are stretched to the limit, and in many cases unable to provide the protection our resources deserve.

"Without a budget increase, we believe that there will be enforcement staff restricted to their offices, as there could be no funds available for items as basic as fuel for the patrol vehicles. This would not be the first time this has happened in recent years" says McMullen.

The Ontario Conservation Officers want to let hunters, the general public and especially the poachers know that we will be out working this fall with all the resources we have available to protect public safety and our valuable wildlife and fisheries resources from illegal activity.

"The OCOA is looking forward to working with the new Dalton McGuinty Government to identify the enforcement program funding short-falls and to bring staffing and equipment levels back to where they were in the mid 90's, and ultimately to put the field officers back in the field where they should be." said McMullen.

- 30 -

Contact:
Jim McMullen
OCOA President
(705) 389-2368

MEDIA RELEASE
May 2, 2004

Conservation Officers Call On Government to Remember Natural Resources During Upcoming Budget
In first week of Southern Ontario's Turkey and Trout seasons, the Ontario Conservation Officers Association (OCOA) is calling on Premier Dalton McGuinty and Natural Resources Minister David Ramsay to increase the MNR Enforcement program funding levels in the upcoming budget to ensure that fish and wildlife are adequately protected this year.

"The MNR budget was slashed in the mid 1990s and has suffered years of fiscal neglect since then. You couple this with increases to basic operating costs and you have reduced the ability of Ontario Conservation Officers to provide effective enforcement of the complex laws that protect our natural resources" states OCOA President Jim McMullen. "This is of great concern to our association, and to the thousands of responsible outdoor enthusiasts, especially during the spring hunting and fishing seasons which are one of the busiest times across Ontario for the 200+ Conservation Officers."

"Funding levels in recent years have been reduced to the point where officers are now having to share vehicles because they cannot afford to repair the existing fleet and the replacement strategy falls short of being adequate, again, reducing the ability to effectively patrol the vast areas they are responsible for" continued McMullen. Throughout the 1990's, overtime budgets virtually disappeared, directly affecting the ability for officers to respond to complaints or to continue complex investigations at the end of their shift.

In Southern Ontario, operating budgets for the enforcement program have been reduced to the point that Districts have had to leave vacant Conservation Officer positions unfilled for, in some cases, 3 and 4 years. This has essentially reduced the number of Conservation Officers in the field and the officers remaining are stretched to the limit, and in many cases unable to provide the protection our resources deserve.

"Without adequate funding, operating an effective natural resource enforcement program for 12 months is never guaranteed. An unexpected major equipment repair could break a districts ability to continue with what the public expects in terms of natural resource protection" says McMullen.

The Ontario Conservation Officers want to let hunters, fisherman, the general public and especially the poachers know that we will be out working in the months ahead with all the resources we are given to protect public safety and our valuable wildlife and fisheries resources from illegal activity.

"The OCOA has had some positive discussions with Minister David Ramsay on several issues, but need the Dalton McGuinty Government to recognize the enforcement program funding short-falls and to bring staffing and equipment levels back to where they were in the early 90's, and ultimately to put the field officers back in the field where they should be." said McMullen.

-30-

Contact:
Jim McMullen
OCOA President
(705) 389-2368
president@ocoa.ca[url][/url]

cottager · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:32 am

Good reading Dan, so I guess with the hard water and fisherman concentrated in a small area, the CO's can do their job quick and easy. After talking to the Co's on the ice, tickets were issued for no helmets on ATVs, no license on your possesion, too far away from you hut with rods in the hole > then 100 metres, alcohol consumption these just to name a few. They even reported the some guys were repeat offenders weekend after weekend. Go figure.

Fish Hound · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:27 pm

I think it's so hard to find the game warrden this time of year beacause it is hunting season. To them it is more important to chase the people with the guns then the people with a fishing rod.I have been fishing for more than 20 years and have been checked only once on the water and this was after sept 11 01 when their budget was increased. This gives the poachers a 1% chance of getting caught.

Walter3rd · **Joined:** Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:41 am **Posts:** 1

I think everyone here has the same goal in mind. And that is to protect one of, if not the best walleye fishery in the world right now. I came up all the way from Chicago this fall. I had the best week of fishing in my life. we kept a total of 3 fish the entire week. I know of fisherman who are coming in from much further than me. Lets face it, the word on Quinte is leaking out. Now is the time to act before the meathunters destroy your fishery like lake Erie.
Here is an idea i came up with. On lake Michigan you are required to purchase a salmon stamp. Why not make it a requirement to purchase a special stamp to fish Quinte for the year? Say $6.00 per stamp. Just a guesstimate, but if you sold 100,000 stamps per year, thats $600,000.
100% of that money could then go to enforcing regulations on the Bay of Quinte. Thats an awful lot of CO's to focus on this fishery.

Fish Hound · **Posted:** Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:05 pm

to:Walter3rd- Just wanted to let you no that lake Erie is still full of walleye;actually last year we had a record hatch to boost the numbers allready here in lake Erie. Maybe you should try the Canadian shore line of the western basin for some of the best walleye fishing anywhere. Try trolling worm harness's with Off-Shore planer boards lots of action.

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Speaking of enforcement

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