Quinte Fishing

From your "source:



http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science/story/16902


Not sure how to read "two 200 kW lithium-ion batteries" as anything but a battery source. The resource waste issue of batteries still pertains to this. I'm not sure how it couldn't.

And you are wrong about ad hominem. It pertains to any attack on the person, not the argument. You don't have to call a name to be using ad hominem, just an inference to bad character or the not as "source sound" as you would like.

You should now look up the fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

As to hydrogen production, once that is a viable technology then we can talk. Until then, not a dime of government $ should be spent on it. Especially if it is to install any infrastructure based on that yet to be functional tech.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

The important point being that it is being built to back up the new solar and wind projects in the area. If not, it was not needed. But thanks for playing.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

You seem to not understand attack on character then. That does not constitute an attack on character, you are some guy on the internet, as am I and I don't expect you to take my word on things either that is why I post facts from expert in the field.
You also seem to not understand what argument from authority is either. Saying you need to listen to me because I am an electrical engineer would be me using an argument based on authority. Posting peer reviewed articles and publication s from expert s that is available for criticism is a valid debate method. Debate based on personal opinion is even lower than based on authority which is the method you have chosen.
So what you are saying about research into energy storage is useless and we should forget about it. Maybe tell Elon musk he is wasting his time on battery tech lol

I can and will tell this Elon Musk that he is wasting his time. No problem. But, i don't care if he is wasting his time if he is spending his own $. Spend away Elon.

You loose on Peer Review. Most if not all "green energy' tech stuff is peer reviewed by "peers" that already have the same opinion as the conclusion drawn by the researcher. It is the problem with all of the "Global Warming" claptrap. It is peer reviewed by a research regime that has already accepted the premise. Thereby, the peer review authority you throw around is the exact definition of appeal to that authority. Market results are all that really matters. That and that alone is the true agenda of the people.

I can tell you will not abide by logic and reason and will hide behind your "authorities" until we all agree with you. You will be relentless in your attacks of those who do not agree with your ideology and agenda. You believe all that you read (at least that which appeals to your ideology) and accept their word as gospel. You will obfuscate and redirect the argument so as to loose all connection with the original positions, which was that you should not participate in a program to force your ideas and programs on those who do not want nor agree with them. Especially where it leads to a destruction of parts of the very ecosystem you claim to be so passionate about, not to mention the criminal negligent manner in which that program will destroy the economic well being of those whom you would foist it upon. Tear up the bats, birds and turtles on the off chance that some wind turbines might keep some particulate matter out of the air? What kind of a demented trade off is that? I bet every one of those animals will accept the particulates over being smashed by giant blenders or having their habitat permanently fractured or destroyed if they were consulted. Or get behind programs that bankrupt regular Joes and businesses with tax schemes that have almost zero to do with environment and everything to do with government control of general revenues. But keep on keeping on fella.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

Wow.

This thread became fun.

As a FYI, based on the last time I looked at this thread, Nope, Steve-Hamilton is not a provincial liberal supporter....certainly federally, but not provincially.

The Feed Into Tariff program has been launched in Alberta and Nova Scotia....so if it is SO bad in Ontario, it must be REALLY bad on those provinces as well. Of course, it isn't bad, and that is why other provinces are moving towards feed into tariff programs. The government has reduced the amount paid back to power suppliers by 75% over the last three FIT iterations, following the cost of installation down proportionally.

Every FIT contract, whether be solar, wind, hydro, or bio was open to all bidders, foreign and Canadian.

The largest two solar developers, and the largest four wind developers are all Canadian companies...no foreign investment in these companies.

During our lifetimes there will be a change in energy distribution from the current mix to Nuclear baseload combined with Renewable forms of energy to supplement the grid. Instead of moving away from this, other provinces are moving ahead with the same program. It's happening, regardless of the provincial party in place.

There are pro's and con's to every power source, Renewable Energy included. However, when forming an opinion one way or another, we all need to be open minded. Health Canada has advised they don't believe there are any identifiable health risks associated with Wind Turbines. As a result, any suspended wind project has now been provided the green light, building within the guidelines for setbacks.

Remember, the government hasn't forced any land owners to lease their land for turbines or panels. These decisions were made completely by the land owner. It is the owners land to lease as they wish.

There will always be heavy opposition to any change. Everyone needs to form their own opinion.

But please, when doing so, always carefully consider the source of the information (and the potential bias associated with the source).

I did enjoy the monologue. Your position is one of anger, you obviously dislike wind energy due to its proximity to you, but at least call a spade a spade and not hide behind a veil of indignant aggression. You have no problem with the effects on the habitat for wildlife you claim to love, to claim otherwise is pure hypocrisy. No energy production comes without it, wind is one of the least intrusive. I'm sorry you are angry that I don't value your opinion over experts who spend their lives in pursuit of knowledge on the subject. I'm also sorry you have a conspiracy theorists attitude that would have you believe scientists and governments around the world are pulling a fast one on you. The fact that you think wind company's are more powerful than oil companies when it comes to political will is laughable. The fact that you still have yet to add one factual piece of evidence to support your opinion based banter is laughable too. And to declare that I lose, and yes it's lose not loose, shows how poorly you have defended your position.
At this point it is so over the top I can't even tell if you are serious anymore. Don't anger, it's just a debate. At the end of the day neither of us will solve the world's problems on a fishing forum.

Thanks guys, I am enjoying reading and learning a lot of things.

Land owners are not forced to take the wind turbine but they are forced to take the setback zone. The 550M setback zone is from the turbine out and can go onto others property restricting the use and lowering the value of their property without compensation.

If the setback zone started at the property line as it should it would cut back the number of turbines per site so they don't want to do that.

If they end up having to increase the setback zone as some countries have that will reach farther onto neighboring property.

These things are poorly thought out, they shut 2 sites down after over a year of conflict because someone pointed out they were next to an airbase. They wanted to put a hundred or so in the lake in front of a lighthouse at a wildlife preserve. These that were just shut down were just down the road from the bird sanctuary.

Some biologist call these an environmental sinkhole as what birds and bats they kill open up territory for others to move in and get whacked, sucking them up like a black hole for miles.

_________________
LUCK HAS NOTHIN TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!

Not angry at renewables at all. Only angry at those who would push it on me without my consent. And without through understanding of its limitations while forcing it on our beautiful province as a major energy infrastructure source.



Wrong again. Look back at my post where I discussed my opinion of wind and solar.



Unless you are a bird. Putting large scale wind farms in migratory bird flyways is criminal. Full stop. But you are correct. Any energy project will negatively effect the environment. That's why building twice the infrastructure as needed (see wind and solar backed by gas) is so patently irrational from a conservation point of view.



I don't need nor want your pity. It is not in any way required. It comes off as patronizing anyhow. You should pity yourself for feeling you need to hide behind sources you can site as your "proof" of rightness. You should rethink blindly accepting the words and work of those who have a vested interest in making you step in line. No conspiracy in that. The "peer review" issue I speak of is real and is having a serious detrimental effect on the green movement. A movement I would wholeheartedly support but for that HUGE glaring issue. Objective science and business interest = objective results. There can be no other way.



Since you love citation so much, kindly cite the post where I stated this. I bet you can't.



Why, so that you can say "no my source is better than yours"? I haven't seen a decent rebuttal by you of anything. You have just regurgitated others opinions and tried to pass them as facts. Do you even have an original opinion or do you get all of yours from Nat Geo?



Ahhh!!! You are sooo much smarter than me because you can point out a typo! You must have a huge brain.



I'm not even sure what this means.



You are correct, because I couldn't work with you. Your ideological blinders are too tight.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

I am originally from Hamilton so I know that area. I'm not surprised that a Hamiltonian would vote Liberal. What scares me is that you didn't say whom you voted for Provincially. From Hamilton scares me that it might be NDP.






This may well be. However, were it not for the HUGE government subsidies built into the power provision contracts with the suppliers, the leasing would not be as wildly lucrative as it is. The result would be far fewer landowners willing to lease due to a rent more reflective of the general efficient output from the array on their land. What the wildly over market rent has created is a growing movement to lease out prime agricultural land for solar arrays. Loss of agriculture locally drives up the cost of food, and on and on.



Agree.



Sage advice. Especially now where there are camps on both sides that are similar to religions. They believe (or disbelieve) and nothing, not facts, reason or logic will change their minds.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

I have one important question , "do walleye bite early or late under a wind turbine !

_________________
Hooksets are free
Bill Barber
Owner /Operator -Trophyhunter Fishing charters

Nobody answered the question on page 1 - why are we installing very costly windmills and selling excess hydro to American markets for less that it costs to produce - at the same time that our hydro rates are among the highest in North America?

Why has wind power not reduce our rates (at lest for those in close proximity)?
Why has the continual sale of hydro not offset the costs for us in Ontario (selling at a loss - then charge more)?

If we put fish on the turbine blades of the windmills, will it kill cormorants?

_________________
LUCK HAS NOTHIN TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!

Just wanted to provide you a correction on the bolded above.

You cannot build on class 1, class 2, or class 3 farmland, in order to NOT take way proper farm land for the use of renewable energy.

As such, no agricultural land that could be used for farming (again, class 1 2 and 3) can be destroyed for the use of solar panels.