Tracker Tundra - Legal Advice is Appreciated

young_one · **Joined:** Mon May 15, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 50

Long time member on the forum, but I haven`t contributed as much as I like for this special community.
The community has always been there for me when I needed advice and information on fishing and much more.

Long story short, last fall while fishing the famous Bay of Quinte in Ontario, Canada, our Tracker Tundra 18SC sank to the bottom of Lake Ontario in just a few minutes. Myself and 3 crew member were extremely lucky; pulled out of the water within 10min in the 37*F frigid water.
(Scott Walcott and Sheldon Hatch were among the rescue heroes that day)

1st owner, bought from local BPS Tracker Center in 2007. 2005 Tundra SC, 2006 150 Optimax, 2006 Pro Kicker. 4 guys all less than 200lbs, normal 6 rod trolling spread and minimum tackle.

1.the weather was rough, but we were among the ~40+ boats out there.

2.while heading in for cover, I had the boat slightly parallel to the waves, we got swamped by a big wave. Our bailing attempts were useless, everything happened in a flash...

3.we had to abandon ship, as the boat sank quickly. Transom first, the boat was vertical and the bow went down within what seems to be less than a few minutes.
I'm hoping someone on this forum can point me to the right direction, a number to call for legal advice, past experience with Tracker Marine, or perhaps a precedent case.

Our All State insurance company still haven't made a decision on the boat & outboard compensation, they HAVE TO find and bring the boat out of water for assessments. Our coverage is minimum; at this point, a total value of $30K on-board fishing equipment and electronics will not be covered. (boat insurance covers up to $1000 for equipment, and home insurance have exclusion for lost due to rising water level and 'waves') :banghead: Gotta check your policies!

If you were in my shoes, I'm sure your ultimate goal is to seek financial compensation for everything that was lost. My dad and I enjoy fishing as much as anyone on this forum community, and we are just your average income family who saved enough so we can fish safe and comfortably. It has been a very difficult winter to overcome everything that had happened, and dealing with insurance is never a walk in the park.

Through my initial research and help from fellow members, I have pulled out the following Transport Canada Regulations to make my case. (Contacted Trans. Cad, waiting for responses)

“Every small vessel shall be fitted with inherently buoyant flotation material that provides sufficient
buoyancy to keep the vessel from sinking when it is swamped and when the passengers are clinging
to the outside of the vessel, where the individual weights of the motor, the passengers, and the
equipment carried in or attached to the vessel do not exceed the weights used in the formula set out”

THIS.. is the only part that matters to the consumer... it MUST float!

4.2.8.4 Requirements for Level Flotation Test
4.2.8.4.1 When the specified preconditioning has been completed (subsection 4.2.8.2), the small vessel shall
float in fresh water as follows:
(a) the angle of heel shall not exceed 10 degrees;
( one part of either the bow or stern reference areas, as defined in paragraph 1.2.1, shall remain
above the surface of the water; and
© the midpoint of the submerged bow or stern reference area shall not be more than 152 mm (6 in)
below the surface of the water

Apologies for the long post, and I wish everyone a safe and successful season!

Will
wkc410@hotmail.com (please don't hesitate to email)

jjz · **Joined:** Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:18 am **Posts:** 231

I remember this story obviously and it was an eye opener considering the weather I have been out in in much smaller boats. Glad you guys are here to tell the story.
My legal advice would be to get actual legal advice, a decent lawyer should be able to make quick work of the insurance claim so you can atleast be compensated for your boat and motor. Getting $ for the electronics gear etc will probably be tough if your policy has a defined limit. Let the insurance company battle it our with Tracker about the floatation issue if they so choose. The last thing you want is for the insurance company and the boat manufacture to gang up and claim that the lost/sinking was due to over loading or careless behavour.

Always hopeful · **Posted:** Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:25 pm

Sorry for the loss of your boat, glad to hear everyone is ok. The 3 of us (me, myself and I) would all go get a lawyer, one with knowledge of marine law and marine salvage is such a creature exist. Sounds like your boat went down way to fast, long as the motor was rated for your boat size u should be OK, someone should owe u a boat and motor, thats why we pay the insurgence bill. You have a professional problem and you need professional help.

Perchslayer666 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:14 pm

Man, this is a tough one, i mean glad you guys are alive, but you are the 3rd owner and the sea worthyness of the vessel is up to the operator to ensure everything is in working order. I mean guys have boats out there from the 60's and if the same situation was to happen to them, could the boat manufactuer be held liable if the boat sank today in the same conditions? Not saying you did or didn't do you due diligence prior to taking the boat out that day, but for it to go under there must have been some damage or weight issues with that boat.

The sad thing those boats are sweet looking too bad all i ever hear are problems with that line.

Dog Lake · **Posted:** Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:23 pm

Perchslayer666 wrote:

Man, this is a tough one, i mean glad you guys are alive, but you are the 3rd owner and the sea worthyness of the vessel is up to the operator to ensure everything is in working order.

I believe he indicated in the original post that he is the 1st owner and bought from the tracker dealer. Might have mixed this one up with Paul's Nitro in the other post.

HBC · **Joined:** Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 am **Posts:** 15

I reviewed the requirements in Transport Canada and you cannot use the reference that you provided. The "preconditioning", as it is referred in section 4.8.4.2, relates to placing a set amount of weight in specific locations on the boat. This test must be completed by the boat manufacturer to allow the design to receive a compliance certificate which will allow this to be legally registered. It has nothing to do with swamping in rough seas.

You truly have to contact a lawyer for this as anything stated here is merely speculation. I don't see a legal case that could be used against Tracker personally as the boat would have met the criteria to begin with.

Have a quick read of this attachment;

http://books.google.ca/books?id=95zqW6g ... es&f=false

It is the section relating to seaworthiness.

Good luck!!! I can understand your grief as I waited almost 5 years for payment from my insurance company when my car was stolen from me.

Walleye 100% Club · **Posted:** Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:26 pm

I will certainly let u know how I make out and would suggest to u to check out the American coast guard regs,abyc and abs. U can google these to findout what u can't here in canada. They are very specific in what is covered and how these boats are to be built.
Good luck.

Paul

HBC · **Joined:** Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 am **Posts:** 15

Unless there is a specific flaw with this Tundra, it has me the requirements otherwise they would not allow for the model to be manufactured. Your insurance company should be footing the bill.

And $30000 of equipment? With 20 rods/reel total, the best stuff would be $6000. Kicker = $1500 tops given the year. Electronics - $3000 for two fishfinders (used price) and marine radio. Bowmount - $400 used. Riggers/rod holders = $2500 unless they were new. The actual cost will be replacement cost, not price when you purchased it new. If I wrote off my 2010 Acura, do you think I would be paid $50K for it?

BATMAN · **Posted:** Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:37 am

Guys,

Some insurance comments.

My boat insurance policy includes a detailed list of my boat, motor and trailer. The list ALSOincludes all accessories added to the boat including 2 electric positioning motors, and 3 GPS/Depthsounders. The list includes model numbers of the extra items. The values of boat, motor, trailer , and accessories are all listed.

I am like most people when it comes to all other fishing equipment in the boat. I do not have coverage except for the general insurance covering no more than $1000.

I would think there are more insurance claims for a stolen boat, than there are for boats that sink.

Good luck with the claim. They will probably give you fair market value for your model year boat. Just like a car, always way less than seems fair.

BATMAN

young_one · **Joined:** Mon May 15, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 50

HBC wrote:

Unless there is a specific flaw with this Tundra, it has me the requirements otherwise they would not allow for the model to be manufactured. Your insurance company should be footing the bill.

And $30000 of equipment? With 20 rods/reel total, the best stuff would be $6000. Kicker = $1500 tops given the year. Electronics - $3000 for two fishfinders (used price) and marine radio. Bowmount - $400 used. Riggers/rod holders = $2500 unless they were new. The actual cost will be replacement cost, not price when you purchased it new. If I wrote off my 2010 Acura, do you think I would be paid $50K for it?

Hi HBC, thank you for taking the time to reply this post.
The $30K value posted is the market value of brand new item if I need to replace them. The insurance company will certainly not pay that amount, given depreciation and etc.

My apologies for not clearly state the explanations behind my numbers.

I have accepted the fact that the insurance company will not cover for what I didn't pay for in my policy. My current approach is to seek legal advice and address my situation towards the manufacture. I'm certainly not an expert on the regulations and laws, that's why I thought it might be beneficial to start this post and get the connections and contacts to those who do.

Finding out the insufficient coverage in my insurance is certainly a costly lesson I wish no one else have to experience. It's my responsibility to read every word in the policy and understand it thoroughly. I agree it'll be an uphill battle.

"I can accept failure, everyone failure at something. But I can't accept not trying." -MJ23

polliwogg · **Posted:** Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:21 pm

Some ins. policies will pay new for old when replacing equipment.

HBC · **Joined:** Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 am **Posts:** 15

And some insurance policies will have a cap for additional accessories. You have to read the fine print, which unfortunately most of us do not, myself included.

I hope that everything gets squared off for you for this issue. I cannot imagine the shock of the initial event back last year, let alone the BS that you have to go through with your insurance company. They have no problem with taking our money, but when it comes to paying out a substantial amount, some companies become absolutely heartless and are only concerned with legalities. As I stated, I waited almost 5 years (two weeks short of 5 years) for a payout when my car was stolen in the 1990's. They waited out to see if I would drop the case and once the court date was 1 week away, they paid it out realizing they had no case. And 35% of what was awarded to me went straight to the lawyer. And the best part is that they treat you like a criminal throughout the entire investigation.

Here is a post about a Tundra that sunk in a tournament - transom failed in this one so not the same case but it brings the quality of the boat into light;

http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/sh ... nking+boat

A recent post about a 21' Tundra that just sank and unfortunately, all 4 anglers perished;

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/2528 ... -no-damage

HOOKER · **Posted:** Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:12 am

Sorry for your loss and I'm glad your here to talk about it. I don't know if you heard that Tracker boats used to be called (Crackers) by the people that used them. Many boat owners of Trackers had split hulls after riding in rough water mind you that was a few years back.

Good luck with the fight maybe post your delema on other fishing boards to se if anyone eles has had a issue with Tracker boats.

Try this one http://www.lakesimcoemessageboard.com

Gerritt · **Joined:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:28 am **Posts:** 66

There is an ongoing conversation on another forum in regards to a fellow who had his Cracker sink in the BOQ, you might be interested in what is being discussed...

http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/foru ... 218&page=1

Mods if this link to another forum is not allowed please feel free to delete it

G

BigMac · **Joined:** Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:18 pm **Posts:** 1383

Same guy

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Tracker Tundra - Legal Advice is Appreciated

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