Quinte Fishing

If this winter of fishing doesn't make you understand that we need to get serious about getting a stocking program underway immediately.you are living outside the perimeters of reality.I have fished the Quinte area since the 1950's and seen both ends of the spectrum.I don't care what anyone says we need to start stocking this area immediately and get the fish numbers up to where they wer in the 1970's.
To wait around and do nothing except talk about the way it use to be is a sad reflection on the fishermen that love to fish walleye.It seems very simple the more fish that go in the more fish available to catch ,spawn and make this fishery much more viable for everyone.
I have heard many excuses why the mnr don't want to stock pickerel in any way but from my research into the matter they are not making sense.
As i have previously stated in previous posts this stocking could be done by local fish and game clubs at almost no expense to Mnr or other gov't agencies.
All parties need to start thinking out of the box or we are going to be trapped in the same old box for many years to come.everyone know the bay can support the fish so lets get things happening.
I challenge the leadership in the local fish and game clubs to make this a priority.I challenge local business to get on the bandwagon,"good fishing means good business".
I also hope our local Provincial represenitive will assist with this stocking effort,she can clear the paths to make it happen.
Come-on fishermen start speaking up and lets get this fishery jolted back to where it once was and could be again...

I year ago everyone was tickled pink about the trophy fishery you had, add one year that was dominated by weather and you want to push the panic button. For your information most of the Great Lake fisheries were negatively affected by the poor weather in the spring and the lack of thermocline during the summer and the ungodly warm water in the fall. This wasn't special to Quinte!
If you want the fishing of the 50's-60's back on Quinte simply disconnect your septic tanks and sewers, started pumping phosphates back into the system. In no time the glories days of the past will be upon us again. Or, wait until spring and when we have normal weather patterns and retain your Trophy Fishery of the World Title.
The past was so glorious.
Greg Horoky

Hi there Greg,

Read about your exploits on the walleye circuit, glad to see you visiting Quintefishing.com and posting.

Hope to see you on the water some time.

_________________
David Delcloo aka Superdad
(Retired)

Kingston

I get down to your area a couple times during the fall, I've seen the best in trophy walleye fishing throughout North America, and everybody else is tied for second behind Quinte.
Hope to see you on the water
Greg

I understand that if you havn't experienced something then it is hard to know what your missing.
If we have perfect spawning year and it is twice or three times as successful as a normal year.This sucess is felt and shown through sucessful fishing for years to come.If the fish were helped every year by assuring their success just think of the fishing that would be available.As i reflect on 50year of fishing the area the class of 1978 really stands out.That sucess was felt for many years after but due to netting ,spearing ,and bad spawning years has got us to where we are now.
Don't forget the fall fish are not local they come in from lake ontario in a migration.,seeking a easy meal.
Lets help the fish have a more sucessful spawning each year by collecting and hatching the eggs from local spawners and then release them by to the waters there parents grew up in.
If we assist the fish this way each spring you are going to see fishing like you have not experienced.

I am supportive of stocking but not as a bandaid, nor as a substitute. I believe it is a useful technique, if just for the sheer edcation value let alone to assist in a token way to supplement weaker year classes. Ideally, native strains of fish that can reproduce are involved. Preserving unique regional strains is an area that is vastly underserved in ,my opinion (a living gene bank).

Budget wise, we do not have the resources in a conventional sence. Creative determined management can help, but alas there is little cooperation for "out of the box" thinking, that goes against the current management/staffing model in any percieved remotely high traffic location. Perhaps, taking one technician from White Lake hatchery and have them spend 2 days a week visiting community groups and assisting in skill development (some actually outperform government making the education mutually benificial). This would be good for moral and convince some that community hatcheries and community cooperation....is not out to take away jobs.....we just want a top notch fishery. Shoot....I would like to see the BOQ designated as a trophy fishery like say in Manitoba with pins or something given for participants of C & R. (This could be done with about two very simple moves....I would donate $ for this one, I am so convinced of its merit)

The US has some of the most interesting examples of fisheries management. Putting aside the differences in budget, the willpower to overcome is very admireable to me. That is in my opinion what we need more of in Ontario. Take a dam on the MadawakaR. for example. They could take it and partner with Hydro to make it into a bottomwater discharge....creating a coldwater fishery (historically this R. had brookies....now they are ghosts in extreme headwaters)

Simply put, we cannot turn back the clock to have the fishing of days gone by. My idea of ideal conditions existed from what I have read about 200 years ago. Atlantic salmon would still swim the nearby Salmon R. and sturgeon would be a common problem. Muskellunge, walleye, pike, whitefish, bass, smelt etc. would all be available in bountiful quantities..... but that was a long time ago....Oh yes...the lake trout were actually naturally reproducing and there were no Chinook.

There will always be fluctuations, with spawning and weather playing an equally large part. If you have the opportunity, listen to a Dr. Casselman speak about this area (Glenora Research Station). He is a very interesting fellow that has engaged in some facinating work. Note- I am largely a supporter of hands on management with involvement in too many models, studys, etc. generally rating somewhere near Barney the Dinosaur........
Heck....the order of the day from me would be for our bio's to get sized up in waders and get out in local rivers to see what exactly we have...or do not....and how can we make it better.

I would encourage you to support the local groups like in Napanee (community hatchery at Springside Park). What you mention has been discussed but will not happen in my lifetime. Yes, it could be done at a cost that would amaze you. Alas, the scope and infrastucture I can picture but also know that this will not realitically occur.

Regards
Don Stokes

Stocking is NOT a solution. I won't wast a lot of breath on the biodiversity problems stocking causes because it's complicated. Rest assured stocking is a sure way to weaken the fishery even more in the long term. We need to learn to manage what we have better. There's a reason why "survival of the strongest" is part of the natural order. A 1% to 2% survival rate in the wild is healthy. A 90% survival rate from a smaller cross section of parent fish causes a genetic timebomb to be fused. Have you ever looked at or eaten hatchery trout. There pale and taste like crap. This is partly due to what they are fed but mainly due to the "photocopier effect" of succesively narrower genetic inbreeding. Some evidence of this is even apparent in the wild when the population of a species is reduced to small numbers. An example is the cheetah population which have been reduced to such levels of inbreeding that they have all become duplicates of each other like identical twins. Let's not start playing god unless we have the shoulders to carry the responsibility of god.

I have to agree with Targa2 on this subject, a bandaid solution to a problem that infects the whole body. Most research people recommend stocking for areas that have been wiped out by manmade problems, only after the problem has been eliminated, i.e. accidental or purposeful poisoning of a body of water, or for put and take situations. Ohio Sea Grant has lots of information and research on their website. The state of Ohio treats recreational fishing as an industry so they do the best research possible.
Even though they are crititized constantly by self interest groups or individuals they make pretty solid decisions based on the best data. Stocking is not the universal cure-all.
Greg

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the point of stocking.I cannot see where using fish from the same genetic pool of spawners is going to in anyway harm the species.if this is the case why do we clean spawning beds in rivers to allow the fish to spawn and have a higher success rate in the reproductive cycle.
Also if we get a higher rate of reproduction and this occurs naturally then this is different in some way then assisting fish from the same genetic pool to be more successful.
This doesn't add up and i don't know who you are getting your expert information from but the ones i am consulting have a completely different opinion then those expressed.
A man once said Wisdom is proved by the passage of time and it appears this may have to be where i get off.

It is always good to see different opinions. I stand by my beliefs and suspect that "agreeing to disagree" is the more noble path to take.

I do like the notion of treating fishing more like a business in how it is managed. The self interest groups would make it interesting at times. Hopefully Ontario will see more movement towards this, given that the business model could see quicker responce, dynamic servicing.

Regarding rearing fish. This can be done in many, many ways, that do not use pellets, repeated generations, etc..

I wish you all well.

Don Stokes

is it not possible that the Bay of Quinte has followed a natural course of evolution in the last few years ?
At one point there were very few walleye in the Bay and then there was an exceptionally good year for reproduction and the population exploded .
After many years of a low walleye population , there was a wealth of feed for the walleye .
After some years of this , and with the arrival of zebra mussels , cormorants , etc , the population has leveled of and the fishing has gotten somewhat slower than the " glory days " we all saw but I think that the population of walleye is quite healthy and generally sustaining itself at a level that it is possible , with a little TLC to maintain naturally .
Maybe we shouldn't expect the amazing catches of walleye we enjoyed a few years ago and be happy with the still good fishing there is with the possibilities of the trophy that exist .

_________________
lets go fishing !!!

Perchbait. Please provide an example where stocking has produced a successful rehabilitaion of a natural population of indigenous walleyes over the long term. By successful I mean that once the population is back to it's glory day highs no further stocking is necessary to sustain that population......Also; are you comparing spawning habitat restoration to restocking as if they are equal somehow in their impact on a fishery? Please clarify the parrallel between these two examples.

I have to agree with perchbait, I live on rice lake and have wacthed are walleye stocks drop big time over the past ten years we went from being able to catch around 12 a day to lucky if you get one. This was confirmed to me by our local MNR and the OFAH. I would like to see walleye stocked in rice lake and in the Bay of Quinte. I fish both on a regular basis, keep the odd eater and the rest go back but there are many who will keep there limits every time and there are those who will keep more. There are poachers which mean that there are a lot of fish coming out every year. Combine this with polution with other factors such as weather, zebra muscles, ect. (targa2) if you would like an example where this is working check out whats going on in Alberta the walleye were at a point of almost none existance now there are making a come back due to the help of stocking. This stocking has been going on for years out there. It takes time but it works. I don't mean to step on your toes, this is my opinion and everyone has a differnt opinion-thats what makes it an interesting discussion.

best regards
Bill / mrmerc

MrMerc
I am confused whether you are talking about poachers depleting a system or evrinonmental changes have altered the sytem at Rice Lake. If poaching is the problem you certainly don't want to add more for them to poach? If the balance in the system has changed where walleyes no longer spawn effectively then you end up with a put and take fishery, where the poachers will continue benefit.
Stocking is such a complicated issue that we as fisherman are out of our league to make viable suggestions. We can offer anecdotal evidence of what we see in numbers up or down but lets leave the stocking question to those experts that make their living making those decisions.
Sincerely
Greg

Hope you don't mind if I jump into this discussion. I really don't think that stocking is the answer you guys are after for the Bay. If you really want to give the fishery a helping hand, why not increase the number of big spawners protected by the slot (ie increase the slot a few more inches, or ideally protect all the big fish). These are fish that are already there with a lot of valuable eggs to contribute to the population. Take this kind of approach and give it some time to work. I think you'd find that you'd be far better off. BT