Spawning and spearing

john e · **Joined:** Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:10 pm **Posts:** 14

It may be a "treaty right" but follow the rules - read/review the "treaty" - summary - walking distance from their place of residence and only retain what they can carry while walking and only retain an amount their immediate family can consume in one year.

Parksy · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:16 pm

What?!?! THAT'S the treaty right?

Swiftdeer · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:56 pm

Treaties allow for an evolution in practice, meaning still don't have to hunt with a bow and stone tipped arrow from a canoe, and treaties mention nothing about walking distance from home, rather in their traditional territories. Community members that still practice hunting snd gathering, those that do in respect to treaty rights, not to turn a profit, not only do it for the immediate family, but also for the benefit of the rest of the community. For those that have never been on reserve, I would urge you if you ever visit northern ontario to stop in and visit with the local community. Its a different life on reserve,both in the north and the south, services most of us take fro granted, are not available on all reserves. Parts of tyendinaga (mbq) still hVe to boil water, despite being bordered by belleville and deseronto which both have drinkable water and municipal services. Reserves are funds are administerd by the federal government, education, heath, infrastructure, housing, etc. So while I don't condone the select few that may be in for profit, selling the catch without a license, the others do so in the spirit of the treaty as a right afforded to them through the treaty and the constitution act. Besides there are far worse things out there introduced by non Aboriginal people into the ecosystem- zebra mussels emptied from the ballast tanks of international freighters destroying spawning beds (though thankfully there has been a reduction), or the round goby introduced crowding out spawing areas and destroying nests/eggs, the increasing number of comorants taking their fare share of fish over and over, the destruction and alteration of waterways and wetlands, fertilizer run off into the lakes, the lists go on. Spear fishing has been going on for thousands of years all across ontario and canada. Look forward to what we have, and be grateful for country we live in cause there are others that are far worse, and its not worth driving yourself nuts about the few out there spear fishing. Look forward to next weekend and the little spears that will be on the end of your lines and think about the fish that are just waiting for you. All the best everyone and tight lines.

GOT2FSH · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:35 pm

....and steer clear of the duck decoys. Lol. That's what the nets are marked with. ( BIG TANGLES when trolling)

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Parksy · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:40 pm

I appreciate your comments in this thread Swift Deer. Certainly quite a bit of food for thought and thanks for presenting it the way you have .

Trannyman1 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:32 am

I agree with Parksy. Good read Swiftdeer.

In my opinion, the few fish taken by spear in the rivers has little affect on the overall population in the Quinte region. The majority, (I think the number is 70%) spawn on the shoals in the area.
Changing habitat will have a much greater affect, and it has in the past couple of decades.
And that changing habitat was the result of the white-man's screw ups.

Thanks
Al

adventure · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:02 am

I think there has been a case of a few bad apples in the basket. I'm all for keeping their tradition. But I do think there have been lines crossed and this is where the real controversy occurs.

I have also seen the Trent River below #1 dam with what looked like 1000's of walleye strewn all over the shore, covering the bottom of the river and even tossed up in trees. There was nothing but the back strips cut out. It was on the west side just below the ruins I think around 1999. That was around the time they left the reserves to exercise their right to go anywhere they wanted. I believe it was done to make a point. Problem is, I have yet to see them spawn in there like they used to and leaving the carcasses all over like that was shameful no matter what the reason.

The next issue to me comes with them filling up the coolers and taking them away in their trucks to be sold. Trading was done traditionally, but not in the quantities like they are capable of today due to modern equipment.

Again, we tend to see only the worst in everything. I believe if their traditions were carried out in the traditional methods, carcasses cleaned up from the river and also only done as others have said above, I do not think there would be the controversy as it stands today.

Leeworthy · **Joined:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:45 am **Posts:** 120

I have no problems with them spearing the fish, Its their right in their Treaties and cultures. What I do have a problem with is watching them spear all night and see truck after truck come in to pick up the catches and then head to Toronto to sell to the local markets and make a fortune. If its your right to spear it is done so for food and sustainability, not for pure profit.

Hutchy · **Joined:** Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:06 pm **Posts:** 399

Agreed, not all natives do this but some do which really irks me and it is not right for me to judge them all that way. There are non natives that do this same sort of thing for personal gain as well and hopefully they get what they deserve.

steve-hamilton · **Joined:** Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:40 am **Posts:** 1776

if the indians weren't trying to sell them to anyone who was willing to give them a dollar, and they truly used the unethically harvested fish for their own use ONLY, then it wouldn't make much of a difference in my mind.

but of course, that isn't the case.

Swiftdeer · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:40 pm

Good posts all, and its a subject that will continue to irk some. There are bad apples in every culture, and its hard to know where to draw the line. All I can hope to do is to inform and provide information. All the treaties in ontario, all but one, allows for the continutation and excercise of aborignal and treaty rights in their traditional areas. The treaties define those boundaries. Aboriginal people are not confined to hunt and fish on reserve only. the only exception to that was the Williams treaties, but that is changing. Those were the only communities that were prohibited from fishing/hunting off reserve. All I can suggest that if you know somethjng about someone spearing fish, then driving to toronto to sell them, call the tip line and report it- get as much info as you can. If they were commercial fishing for the species with a license,.they would,if I am not mistaken be bound by the same regulations as other commercial fisheries, but don't hold me to that one. Don't judge all NH the actions of a few. All the best to everyone.

playinhooky · **Joined:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:24 am **Posts:** 104

I don't think they should be able to sell them for profit, what happened to doing it to feed your family. I guess they look at differently by selling the fish,deer or whatever to buy the food to feed the family. It is pretty sad when you can go on the reserve and buy elk meat, deer meat, walleye and whatever else. Ask some of the locals in Prince Edward County about the deer poaching going on over there and what the deer numbers are like compared to 15 yrs ago. I have about 6-700 acres pretty much to myself and I use to see anywhere from 5-20 deer a day,now I am lucky to see 2. I and others have personally caught these poachers on private property and nothing gets done about it. The law does not apply to them. I know it is a certain few dozen that make the rest look bad, as I have a few native friends and they do not agree with what is going on. I am done venting now as I could go on and on.

mudpuppy · **Joined:** Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:25 am **Posts:** 5

I don't post much but do enjoy reading the posts by fellow anglers. being hard or soft water.

that being said I have witnessed truck beds ful of walleye this spring from Consecon. their is no shortage of sales to
anyone interested in purchasing these fish.. so if there was no market no sales ?????

mudpuppy · **Joined:** Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:25 am **Posts:** 5

I know the people getting these fish are not buying them!!!

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Spawning and spearing

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