Quinte Fishing

Transport ca. definition of freeboard is the distance between the water and the working deck of the vessel, which in this case really isn't right. But freeboard is generally measured at the side of a boat as from waterline to deck and not from the waterline to the engine well at the back. And if you are going to rescue somebody in rough water you are going to need that motor. If you get into the actual regs it says you can't use the outdrive as a boarding devise.

Gotten a few tickets have you? Best way to make them "shove it" is to be in compliance. If its in the regs, it applies. Area of application has no bearing. It may just be that Hamilton area enforcement has decided that they are going to be strict about it. That is in their discretion and it's up to boaters to comply regardless of the discretion used in other areas.

Basically it comes down to a simple maxim. They can't charge if you are compliant. Then, once they have checked you over (which, by the way is NOT an infringement of your civil liberties) and they are driving away with nothing to get you on, you should tell them to shove it. Although, if you tell them too loud you might be embarrassed when someday they have to pull you out of the drink, or drag you in when you can't get your rig to start.

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"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

Nope, never received a ticket in my life.

Compliance cannot be reached due to hamilton marine cops not being able to get their sh*t straight and come up with a set of consistent rules (for example, define what "sufficient knowledge" actually means or define what a re-boarding device actually is) ... my frustration runs deep.

Perhaps you could challenge them on it and take it to court for a definitive ruling. It sure you help a lot of other folks.

So you're mad at them for not giving you a ticket?

Also, can you provide context for the "sufficient knowledge" issue?

If you're just mad that they are stopping you and interrupting your fishing, welcome to life my friend. Once you get in that boat and put it in a public waterway you are subject to inspection. Full stop. I'm not a lawyer but I am a guy who doesn't like "the man" getting into my affairs. The only way to keep them out is to not put your self into a situation where they have the authority to intervene. On the water, in your car, they can stop you or find a pretext for stopping you and demand the required licencing. And in my opinion, your anger is unfounded because the cop doesn't make the law he's there to just enforce it (but that is a whole other rant). So get angry at the law makers or get into an advocacy group that pushes for change in the laws. Don't spew venom at the errand boy, he's just out there doing a job, trying to make a buck to survive, and probably to buy his own boat.

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"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

I don't disagree Tamarax.

Although it would cost a day off from work, if I received a ticket for not having a sufficient re-boarding device I would take it to court.

I do have my map....as I know they will not accept anyone having sufficient knowledge, and I have the card of one of the marine cops that told me "he" would accept a tie off rope on the back of the boat (as long as it's a "second" rope in the back...if you only have one, that wouldn't be considered a re-boarding device) as a reboarding device .... but we all know what the court system will do with ambiguity in the legal system.

An easy win which could result in a clear definition of what sufficient knowledge means as well as what a re-boarding device needs to be.

Billy Dee, "sufficient knowledge" is required (but not defined) in order NOT to need a physical paper map chart of the water body you are on....

edit: and no, I'm not mad at them wanting to check me....that's life....I'm mad at them trying to enforce rules that they don't know the definition of, or how to enforce themselves.

This is what causes different "regions" to police differently.

A common set of rules for all is what any boater on Lake O asks....that's it.

If you click on the link that Dan posted at the beginning of this thread, and scroll about half way down the page, it gives definitions and meanings of all the gear needed.
Here is the one for the Reboarding device.....




A reboarding device allows someone to get back on the boat from the water. A transom ladder or swim platform ladder meets this requirement

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There's something wrong with that rod.
It has a bend in it!!!

Ahhh I get it now thank you. Although, take it from someone who has learned this the hard way, for any summary conviction offences (and some dual proceedure) each enforcement region (in your case Hamilton-Wentworth?Halton) have meetings to decide what tack they intend to take in enforcement. Some will decide that "Hey, in our area, the public is upset that too many people have been dying in their boats and the cops don't seem to be doing anything about it." So, the powers that be instruct their officers that strict enforcement will be in place. So when you're in Hamilton they enforce strictly, and at the same time when you are up in Quinte, the same issue may be dealt with by a little more officer discretion.

Front line officers know the rules. They have to. And they are instructed on how to proceed.

_________________
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very very dangerous man who has his capacity for mayhem under voluntary control."

"(B)e wary of discarding the ancient system where we all have the right to make our own decisions for one in which we all have the right to make each others, in the hope of finding true human fulfillment through “positive” rights to other people’s money and applause?"

Freeboard: means the minimum vertical distance at side between the gunwale (upper edge of the boat main deck side) and the design waterline.

Reboarding device: in respect of a small vessel, means a ladder, lifting harness or other apparatus that does not include any part of the vessel's propulsion unit and that assists persons in gaining access to the vessel from the water.

Your simplest reboarding device is a rope looped into the water at the side or dropped to the water with a loop in it (but not long enough to reach a prop) so that a person can gain a foothold to lift themselves aboard but it cannot be dual purpose like a dock line.

What I can't find is a definition for readily accessible, some of the cops consider that as you must wear it for life jackets but your anchor must also be readily available so I guess you have to tie it round your neck, along with a fire extinguisher, bailer , boarding ladder flairs etc. .

"Reboarding device: in respect of a small vessel, means a ladder, lifting harness or other apparatus that does not include any part of the vessel's propulsion unit and that assists persons in gaining access to the vessel from the water."

So the cop that gave me his card was correct in advising me that a rope would suffice as long as there are "two" (so that one is a dock line and the other isn't).

I have two ropes at the back of my boat, one on each corner (as docks can be at the right side or the left side).

Based on what you have defined as Freeboard, why can't a cop look at the back of the boat? Cop told me the "highest" point between water and top of gunnel.

Steve, if you look again at freeboard its at the side. If you could imagine being in 5 footers, you want that motor to control the boat, you can't shut it down to recover someone . And they just don't want anybody near that prop.



Practice a man overboard, and then an unconscious man overboard its not easy. (DON'T USE THE WIFE!!!!!)

I think most people would agree that reboarding over the side would be much safer, but in the regs they state that a transom ladder, or swim platform ladder would meet the requirements. Doesn't sound like they care if you're near the prop or not.....

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There's something wrong with that rod.
It has a bend in it!!!

They go by the lowest height at the side, I can only guess why.

Why would anyone try to get back in at the highest point, and if you have a reboarding devise your not going to put it at the highest point. If your alone and the motors running your not getting back in. if it's not I'm standing on the cavitation plate and using the tilt to help me in.