Small rant

Maverick · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 586

I'm gonna make this short and sweet.

I think this board is a great source of info for many anglers out there and like most things in life many people are going to have different opinions on lots of different subjects. These things can get heated and personal from time to time.

I wanted to post in the other thread after reading a particular comment but it was locked before I had the chance and seeing as how it's in my personality to defend myself this is what I have to say.

Griz comment #83 made reference to guides somewhat having a double standard and although I cannot speak for every guide on Quinte I know I speak for most when I say ... First off we work damn hard to make an honest living and although we are very lucky to have this dream job it comes with sacrifice, long days, politics and stress. I strongly encourage all my clients to release big fish and opt for a replica mount however I do not in any way shape or form condemn them if they decide not to release that fish of a lifetime, I do however think that in this day and age of fishing tournaments there are better options to have fun that do not promote killing a fish for a few hundred dollars that might otherwise have gone back home! I myself have a replica mount and a skin mount and I'm very proud of both of them and for me now my favourite part is when that next big fish is released. I take exception to the fact that the way I support my family gets somehow gets tossed out there like its part of the problem,

As Scott mentioned in an earlier thread it's great to see people debate at great length because it shows we care about the fishery we are so fortunate to have on our backyard, however it bothers me greatly when a comment is made like that and is completely unnecessary in my opinion. Ok so maybe it wasn't so short and sweet but now that it's off my chest I feel better.

Grizzly · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:57 am

Grizz comment #1... (ON this Thread)
If the shoe fits,,,, wear it! . in my 83 comments ive stated more than a few times I have no issues with Guides doing what they love to do, I know the price they have paid. I know they have worked hard to get to the place they are now.
Each season my PM box fills with questions from guys on how to catch big walleye. where to go what to use. where to stay, where to get minnows. the list is endless. depending on how I read the person quite often ill toss out to them maybe they should consider using a guide. for the record Joe your name is on the top of my list as the best hard and soft water guide and I tell them to contact you........ Hardwater specialist (Brandon) has been my second choice (I am not surprised to see that you two have joined forces) when I read that I thought to myself. Wow what a team!
Soft water again my choice has been you Joe, followed by Westlake willows (Scott) . when people ask me I want to give them the best I know mainly because I know they will be treated right, be on good fish, have the best time, and a fair cost biggest trouble is many just cant afford it or find the time they have has already been booked so you guys are unavailable to them. oh well there is only one Joe. or Scott. and only so many weekends in a month.
Joe im not stupid, I can think of many reason someone should use a guide to fish or learn the ropes of quinte, and I cant think of one reason why they should not use a guide. many guys don't need one but they want to know ice conditions, where to park. where to stay. and how is the bite. in any one season 100.s of guys would love to go fishing with me. again I only have so much time and so many weekends and I could run my AZZ ragged trying to help these guys out. this year I have only been out 7 times my Job, all the snow, the weather conditions, has keep me from fishing as much as I would like.
This weekend was supposed to be my Three day weekend....... it snowed Saturday I got called into work and worked 9 hours cleaning SNOW from the walkways of 3 hotels in Picton for the 30th time this winter... last night I got called in with a huge plumbing issue. and I will have to go back this morning to clean up the aftermath of last night so much for a nice relaxing weekend fishing. so please don't tell me about hard work my friend I know all about it!
Old saying. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. you are right we all have an opinion. and a right to speak it. you might side with one, and not the other, I have no issues with that but you do need to be prepared for the aftermath of words you speak even more so on the inter net....
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I take exception to the fact that the way I support my family gets somehow gets tossed out there like its part of the problem,
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If you want to tell people you have a problem with them keeping a big fish. and you help many catch and keep big fish then again if the shoe fits. wear it!!! I never once even said there was a problem in fact just the opposite I see no problem either with a guide, or Mr Johnny come lately Fisherman out on his second ice fishing adventure of a 60 day season keeping a big fish. its there right as well as your right to do what you do.
Joe I am not patting my back here..... I have taken 2 over 10 fish in my 15 years of quinte fishing both due to bad hook sets. I fed them to my neighbors they thanked me and did not mind one bit. I have spent countless hours with the battle of the bay, to help the cops and kids program when approached last year I told them I wanted no part of running it it didn't happen I see a post this year why no battle of the bay? I didn't bother posting on that thread. I have worked with the pen projects in wellington the past 8 years, I sit on the FMZ 20 counsel meetings as a CLASSA alternate for the last 6 years. so please don't say I don't care about fishing or its future, or I don't know what I am talking about! I sit and talk with fish biologists. I support the industry. and try to do my part to protect and improve the one thing I wont do is push my views on someone all I can do is show my views, and like it or not al they are is my views so if some take great offence to my words that's there issues not mine.......... what I can and will do is stop posting here maybe it will make this place better if I no longer contribute to these discussions . Chuck

FISH HUNTER · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:49 am

I don't normally get involved in arguments on here and try to stay out of it but this is one I feel I need to say something. I have the pleasure of being good friends with a lot of the great guides we have here and can honestly say bashing them for what they do is hardly fair or accurate. Having been on numerous trips, mainly with Joe but also with Scott, Nick and Jeff both while guiding as well as fun fishing I can say with complete honesty I have never been on a boat with any of them where anything other than smaller eating size fish have been kept. Now I'm not nieve enough to think that no big fish are ever kept but the number is much much lower than you think. These guys take much greater pleasure in the hunt and successful release then they do in keeping fish. The lengths they go to to properly educate their clients, not only on how to catch fish but to also properly handle them allowing for the best chance of a successful release are second to none. To suggest these guys are part of the problem is not only unfair but extremely inaccurate. It makes no sense for these guys, who make a living off this amazing fishery we have, to promote anything but teaching sustainable fishing practices. Afterall nobody is going to hire a guide to taking them out if there aren't any fish to catch.
I apologize for the rant but not for defending people who are being unfairly judged for doing what they love.

FISH HUNTER

Maverick · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 586

Grizz, your comment came across very much like the guides don't want anyone taking big fish unless your paying us and that's simply just not true... I do not haul back big fish after big fish whether I'm scouting or guiding, I've prob had a dozen trophy fish over the last 5 years taken home for the wall and know of at least a dozen that measurements were taken to be made into replica's ...I really like to see those fish go home but as I said if the client decides to keep it so be it and I don't think anything less of them or anyone else for that matter!!! Again my issue is with a "tournament " that promotes killing big fish!

I appreciate your accolades and comments I just get very frustrated when discussions like the last one always get brought back around on to the guides, especially when things are assumed about how we operate.

West Lake Willows · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:41 am

Griz,

First of all I want to know why you recommend Joe over me. Just because he catches bigger fish then me ALL the time in my wake doesn't make him a better guide!!! He just has a horseshoe lost on his boat somewhere and one day I'll find it and steal it. I look through his boat every morning before he gets there. Don't worry I'll find it. Lol

The comment that rubbed Joe the wrong way, and myself a little bit too was this:

(Golden star derby thread comment #83)

Grizzly wrote:

it dosnt sit well with me for someone on one hand to say put big fish back its wrong to take them yet once someone pays me to take them out on a charter it now becomes ok for them to take the big fish. is that not a bit of a double standard??

Maybe you weren't talking about Joe and I, but we are the only guides involved in that thread and it sure felt like I was being called a hypocrite.

Scott

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pike-hunter · **Joined:** Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:29 pm **Posts:** 109

I find it funny. Almost on every thread in there this griz guy has to add his 2 cents Instead of reading it and moving on. Now how much time have each of us wasted writing back to someone who just wants attention it seems to me lol. Nothing but a joke

TheLandshark · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:17 am

This is how I feel. As a Guide myself you keep it simple. If you wanna book a charter with me we release all fish over the 24.8 If the clients know this up front they understand. None of this it was going to die because it had a little blood . It has a lot better chance of survival in the lake then it does in my livewell. If all guides had a similar policy there is no competition between guides like "well fishmaster charters lets us keep big ones" etc... I love me some Joe and Scott (no homo) There are not nicer fellas on the lake. When the clients call and wanna book a trip with me the conversation goes like this" Just to let you know John Doe, we care a lot about this fishery and want our kids to be able to enjoy the same trophy fishing that we have now. If we catch anything over the 24.8 (or is it 24.6 sorry brain fart this am) we will release the fish. If you do wanna get one mounted we will get all the measurements pictures etc. and you can get a beautiful replica made". Any type of sportsman is going to completely understand. If they have a problem with that, then go elsewhere . I'd rather sleep with myself knowing I feel i am doing the right thing than the 500 dollars id have in my pocket. I would be completely not telling the truth if I said I had never kept bigger fish. I also tell the truth when i say that I have sat back and thought about it and i know this is the right thing to do. Do I agree with the tourney, No. All this bashing however is out of control. We all care about fishing and we all care about the fishery. To think that guides are out there just murdering the fishery is ludacris. There are just a few of them(us) and 1000's of you (me).

West Lake Willows · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:17 am

I DO NOT want start an Internet flogging of anyone. I just felt called out by a statement and have let Griz know I was offended by it. If I know Griz he will clarify and make it right then we all move on.

I won't let Griz forget he recommends Joe over me though. I'll hold on to that one for awhile. (Although I'm not really offended, just can't let an easy one like that slide)

Scott

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dudedru · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:36 am

Can't we all just get along...

Billy Dee · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:46 am

Just a quick question... Wouldn't the difference be that when out with a guide, one maybe two trophies are kept per trip (and done within the regs) so that a bearable harvest of the resource is maintained, whereas a kill tournament may mean that multiple trophy fish (or any weighed fish for that matter) is killed thereby specifically promoting the removal of a larger than usual number of trophies or potential trophies at one time?

LarryGuy · **Joined:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:23 pm **Posts:** 142

pike-hunter wrote:

I find it funny. Almost on every thread in there this griz guy has to add his 2 cents Instead of reading it and moving on. Now how much time have each of us wasted writing back to someone who just wants attention it seems to me lol. Nothing but a joke

Dude the Grizz is a regular contributor to the site who has in depth knowledge of the area that he shares and offers...to be called out by a guy with only 68 post seems like a joke itself...BTW yes I don't have many posts either on this site, but I'm also not the guy calling out a regular contributor.
I don't like the tournament format either, but it seems like an honest oversight that the organizers are willing to change if all things were that easy.
Maybe all guides should think about applying LandShark rule seems logical & if you all applied to your boats that would be the only option amongst the best charters.

steve-hamilton · **Joined:** Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:40 am **Posts:** 1776

the point is very accurate.

folks are getting upset over a few small tournments where a half dozen or a dozen matures may be killed.

the guides on this board keep at least a couple big fish (more than not) on every guided trip.

YES they do not suggest keeping the big fish, but as said on this thread, they cannot stop a paying client from keeping a legal fish over 24.8".

In my years of pounding Quinte in December, we often kept one or two matures in our 10 day trips....but that was because we didn't catch fish below 24.8". Things have changed on Quinte. No longer are boats catching 10 to 15 "overs" in an outing....that was common practice in the early 2000's.

However, in the early 2000's there was only four guides consistently working the November/December months. I know this because we kept closely in touch. Now there are 15 or so guides working that water daily.

Each guide keeps a couple fish, each day.

Add that up over the months of October, November, and December. You get the idea.

IT IS VERY hypocritical for a guide to put down a small catch and keep tournament. ESPECIALLY if that money is going to charity. The money a guide receives goes to their pocket.

That is MORE than ok. Folks are more than allowed to make a living.

BUT, its not ok to put down a charity event for the same reasons that allow a guide to make a living.

Just do the math. If one guide keeps one "over" once a day, over the season, multiplied by a dozen or more guides working that water daily (with more guides joining the gong show yearly), .... well, you get the idea.

FISH HUNTER · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:23 pm

I don't think its accurate to say each guide keeps atleast one over fish every trip. I can say with 100% certainty that its simply not true.
Are there numerous over fish kept every year, sure, but its nowhere near what is being suggested.

FISH HUNTER

steve-hamilton · **Joined:** Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:40 am **Posts:** 1776

well, i review the facebook feeds for many of the guides....

actually, just about all of them....its because I can live vicariously through them, as due to my current life situation, I cannot get up to Quinte like I once could.

I'm not naming any names, but with the dozen or so facebook feeds I review, many 8-10lbs fish (the ones just over 24.8") are kept daily.

Are they 12lbs plusers. nope.

but they are "overs".

And again, no where did I say there was anything wrong with that. BUT, it is wrong to do that, and then say derby fishing where a half dozen or less matures are caught.

steve-hamilton · **Joined:** Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:40 am **Posts:** 1776

oh, and for the record, I often get asked about guides on Quinte.

My first choice is always Scott.

Why? Because he's solid, and will always advise what is right.

He has already said if a client wants to keep a fish over 24.8", then the client can.

I know this. And yet, I will continue to suggest him as my number one choice.

Its ok to have people keep fish. The fishery can sustain it.

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Small rant

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