Boat card and vhf radio

TheLandshark · **Posted:** Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:27 am

You give me anyone on this forum who has never radio experience and I can teach them what they know in about 10 minutes. What is it that you find difficult about the radio? I can teach them the 3 different calls they might have to make. How do properly do it. It really isn't rocket science. Here let's give an overview.
Mayday is used for a life threatning situation. The word pan is used ina situation where there might be an injury or a boat problem with no life threatning situation. The word security is used for a boating hazard. For example a big logn a missing buoy, a lighthouse that's out etc. Here is what you do. U turn to channel 16 and say the emergeny. Here is an example. You always start by saying it 3 times. "Pan pan pan this is thevessel. Landshark over". Coast guard might ask what you emergency is. ". We have a male 45 who has just cut his hand bad and might need medical attention over". Coast guard might ask how many ppl on board, where I'm at, what's the description of my vessel etc, they might ask me to switch to a different channel. They will ask questions, and you respond. Each time you stop talking you say over. Ok that was very general but if you learn the basics u are fiine. Let's say I saw a massive tree floating what I would do? 1hat if there was a channel buoy that had apparently been moved to an area that has some rocks sticking out, what would I do? Oh *** I'm taking on water bad and om 4 miles off shore and my boat might sink and its may? What would u do? I lost power and I'm drifting, its calm and not far off shore but it could wash me up on the beach?
Ok all this is just general but the bottom line is if you don't lnow anything but to turn a rad.io on and go to 16 and remain calm and call for assistance you are going to be ok. They will walk u through it. The coast guard knows that not many people knoow how to use a radio. Its like calling 911. They work with ya. Do we need a 2 day class on how to use a phone and dial? Google marine radio procedures. Inude this in the boating class, don't expect peope to come up with another 60 dollars to learn this.

Grizzly · **Posted:** Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:19 pm

I have to say I agree with you Shark after reading the website you posted it seems quite simple and im sure there is alot you can learn but is it nessassery to know it all?? doubtfull. like you said under an emergency the coast guard will walk you thru it to get what info they need......... the kicker is they say you need all this hoopla to even own and opperate a radio. that I have issues with for sure .......... granted many use the radio like its a cell phone, thats not what its intended for plain and simple its a safty tool and should be treated as such................. AS for the power squad god bless them who try to make a differance......... all three of my children have taken the safe boating course because its required for them if they want to opperate a boat . and they did learn alot more than the old ways where the father teaches them how to start the boat and take off

Walleye · **Posted:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:44 pm

I have lost the debate and that is okay by me.
So let's go in a different direction.
Radio in boat with no license = $ 250.00 fine

In Canada, a certificate called the Restricted Operator Certificate (Maritime) (ROC (M)) is required by all people who operate a VHF, HF (high frequency) or MF (medium frequency) Marine Radio, either a handheld or permanently fixed set.

Cheers, Clark

Walleye · **Posted:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:04 pm

Hi all.
Interestingly enough, none of the "Pro's" that use this site as their promotion tool have chimed in. These guys are pro's and I am pretty sure they have VHF Radios on board.
What say you, West lake or Quinte Fishing Team?
Cheers, Clark

West Lake Willows · **Posted:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:15 pm

Clark,

Not sure why you want me to chime in, how exactly am I related to this post?

I could be wrong and I apologize in advance if I am misreading your post, however, I get a very condescending tone in your reference of me as a "pro" using quotations and reiterating with "these guys are pro's".

I consider myself a very lucky man to be able to make a living off the great outdoors. I respect the waters I fish in, and the clients I have on my boat. I don't consider myself any better or worse then any fisherman on this board.

For the record I pay to advertise on this site, and I check with Dan before posting promotional threads in the message board.

Not that it is relevant to this thread in any way,shape or manner what my qualifications are, however, as per Transport Canada requirements as a small commercial vessel and as a registered and approved Transport Canada Charter Captain. I have:

CDN number
Marine First Aid,
Marine Emergency Duties A3,
Small Vessel Operator Proficiency,
and a ROC (M) with DSC designation.
I have all Transport Canada certificates laminated in a binder on board as per transport Canada requirements.

This is the first and last post I will make in this thread.

Scott

Maverick · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 586

Last time I was fishing with quinte ice fishing team they did not haul any boat on the ice ??? I know they have a lot of gear but I failed to notive vhf radios in their portable shelters as well...

My grandfather always told me it is better to remain quiet and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

Walleye · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:36 am

Hi all.
West Lake. You are a Pro by definition. You are well respected on this Forum as well the other Pro's too. By extension those of us on this Forum would tend to look up to you particularly when such an important issue like this arises.
What is your opinion on the rquirement to have a Boater Card and more importantly a course that would have boaters be competant?
What is your opinion on the requirement to have a VHF Marine Radio Licence and more importantly a course that would have users competant?

Maverick. Your Grandfather gave you very good advice.
Cheers, Clark

Grizzly · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:52 am

Walleye wrote:

I have lost the debate and that is okay by me.
So let's go in a different direction.
Radio in boat with no license = $ 250.00 fine

In Canada, a certificate called the Restricted Operator Certificate (Maritime) (ROC (M)) is required by all people who operate a VHF, HF (high frequency) or MF (medium frequency) Marine Radio, either a handheld or permanently fixed set.

Cheers, Clark

you said it yourself......... and confirmed to me if not most all on one hand you want to teach people how to be safe on the water. I said it once ill say it again this is a good thing. not a bad thing......... safty is always best............. Now reguarding safty you say a person can be fined 250 dollars for having such a valuable safty device on there boat if they dont have a licens to use the device. im sorry but I just find that completely insane. not to mention...... MONEY GRAB!!! ......... How about they just lay down a hefty fine for gross missusage of of a safty device and let it go at that ??? .
I just laid out 100 bucks on a radio. 50 bucks on an antena for the radio. I hope I never have to even use the radio but think its a smart thing for people to have one for three main reasons. (One). Listen for weather warnings (Two) To be able to call a pan pan for a break down. (Three) Be able to hear. and answer a pan or a mayday.......... and for all this im told I need to spend more money to learn something that most anyone already knows how to do. where will this all end ??? when will it be that you will be REQUIRED to be certified in small engine safty in order to opperate your lawn mower?
Clark if you really want to make a differance then why dont you lower your cost to lets say $20 . and give the course on one weekend say friday night, and saturday to me that makes much more sence than $60 and one night or day on 3 seperate weekends . and for the recond. this is not a win or lose situation except alot of people lose out on a valuable couse simply because they can not afford the class or are able to give up that much time to even take the class. there is many people who work 6 days a week just to feed there families and find it hard to set aside 3 days to take a course.........
Remember. this is a discussion board. people might seem or get frustrated but people should never get mad at what they read or what others might say

wayne · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:42 am

Hey Grizz.... anybody can have a vhf radio onboard without a license,it"s when you key the mike you need the the license.Back in the mid 80's I paid $45.00 to take the coarse,I believe it was for 3 nights,2 for learning 1 for writing the test,The hardest part I had was learning the alphabet....ALPHA- BRAVO-CHARLIE_DELTA and so on.

TheLandshark · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:58 am

Ok here is my stance on the whole deal. I am all for a mandatory boating course. I think this is what should be done. All boaters 16 and under should tave to take a 10 hr course. All those who do not have a boat currently registered must take the course before registering a boat regardless of age. If you have a boat currently registered you are grandfathered in. This will in time work itself out and anyone behind the wheel of a boat regraless if they own it or not should have to take the mandatory class. As far as the radio deal, It should be included in the boating class. To charge someone 60 dollars to take a radio class is ridiculous. As far as a fine for not having a license, I have NEVER heard of anyone getting a ticket or fine for this, have you? There are hundreds of charter captains on lake ontario and I do not know one with the license. I promise you that if you were stopped by the coast guard they are much more concerend and happy that you have a radio on board for safety issues than they are worried about making sure you have a license. At some point common sense has to take over.

West Lake Willows · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:27 am

Well, I'm still stinging a little bit from the condescending manner in which I was brought into this thread, but it does seem to have taken a more constructive direction then I assumed it would.

Not that my opinion really matters, I appreciate that you feel people "look up to me" as you put it, but that is on the problems with the internet and forums. To many people hide behind a computer screen and pretend to be something they aren't, or post uneducated nonsense to stroke their own egos. (That statement is not pointed at anyone specifically)

My opinion is this.

There is a lot of bureaucracy behind a lot of regulations. I think the the intention is usually good, but is lost in the method.

As for the boaters card. The idea behind educating and training boat operators for everyone's safety on the water is a good idea. The current system is a joke. You can write the test online with no confirmation of who you are or who you say you are. You can take it back to back after knowing what you got wrong. etc. etc. Its a joke and in my opinion in no way makes me safer on the water. I believe they are moving to change this in the near future, and I believe the current system is some kind of transition to ease the public into mandatory boaters training. Probably similar to a drives license system.

Regarding the VHF. Here is a sad incident that occurred in Wellington last summer. A gentleman and his wife were out in a boat with guests I believe doesn't matter. The gentleman falls overboard and does not have a PFD on, he can not swim. The wife panics (as we all would do) she grabs the VHF and starts saying something to the effect of "mayday mayday mayday my husband fell overboard and he can't swim". THe problem was in her panic she said this over and over again for several minutes. This jammed the radio and several boats in the vicinity that wanted to respond could not because they did not know where she was.

In my opinion knowing proper radio protocol is helpful in normal radio communication, however, in a time of an emergency very few of us would actually use proper protocol, and to be honest we can clearly communicate without proper protocol. It does make it more succinct but the point get across either way. That being said the ability to jam a VHF channel like the mans wife did in Wellington is something that training would help with. I do support a VHF training. Does it have to be as long as it currently is? Personally, I don't think so.

Scott

TheLandshark · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:39 am

Well said and many do look up to you scott and the way you handle yourself professionally, including myself. I agree 100 percent, add the vhf training to the 10 hr boating class.

TheLandshark · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:46 am

I would be even willing to take the training so that I was able to offer the course. I would be more than willing to offer the course for free for future boaters. I cant beleive it would be hard to find some facility to donate a classroom for such a good non-profit cause

Pa Fireman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:14 am

I not much for posting on here, but I do like to read about whats going on. This topic has a lots of good points. Polliwog has hit the nail on the head with the wearing of PFD's. No matter what time of the year, or season your on the water a PFD should be worn when the boat is in motion. Let me start by saying that it doesn't matter how strong of a swimmer you are you. We are all subject to drowning in water!

Weather a person is thrown into the water or voluntary jumps in to save a person. The individual going in the water will swallow water during the process. Weather the water be 45 degrees or 75 degrees, the water is still much cooler the your core body temperature. causing the person to have rapid cool down. With that being said, this causes the person to gasp upon entering the water allowing water to be ingests through their mouth and/or nose. Think about this!!!! On a hot summer day you enter a swimming pool that has a temp of 76 degrees. You can either jump from the side or you slowly walk down the ladder till your in the pool. As you walk down the ladder, the water slow rises from up legs to your hips. How many people have done this and remained on their tip toes after entering the pool? The water has now crested you hips and what did you do? You took a gasp of air to get over the shock of the cooler water on you hips. Same applies when you fall overboard!!!!

As far as the cramping feeling, this is caused by you body retracting the blood from you extremities and it's trying to keep you core organs at the proper temperature. The body senses that somethings wrong, and it now is going to protest you vital core organs and brain, keeping them at that 98.6 degree temperature. Less blood movement to the legs and arms will cause the cramping and lack of use.

Like I said before, A PFD should be worn at all time. You owe that to yourself and your families to come home safe after a day on the water

Justin

Grizzly · **Posted:** Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:17 am

I guess I just have issues being told what I have to do in order put society at ease........ I think there should be a law that if you live in a city with 10.000 or more people in it you should have to walk around with a orange flag on a pole that is a minium of 6 feet over your head because i am really worried that people arnt seen by cars driving down the street. lets take the seat belt law as an example. do they want me to wear it because they are truly worried about my safty?? if thats the case why on earth would they let a person ride a motor cycle on the road? are they not consurned about there safty as well?? Im all in favor of the law that requires one PFD for every person on board. but telling me i have to have it on I ask myself why for all thouse years did we fight against the communists?? Im sorry but i just dont agree with that Justin I do think maybe a pfd should be placed out in plain sight for each person on board so it is at arms leinght at all times and maybe YES if you are all alone out in a boat where waves are presant over say 1 foot its a good idea but i should have the good sence to know when I should have my PFD on not be told .....I MUST WEAR ONE . and the real kicker is basically they could give a rats azz about my safty. they wanna hand me a ticket and make me pay 150 bucks for non compliance!!

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Boat card and vhf radio

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