Quinte Fishing

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/arti ... /306179983

A fisherman's got to know his limitations. And the same now apparently goes for every other boater on the St. Lawrence River who may accidentally drift into Canadian waters.

Roy M. Anderson, a seasonal resident of Thousand Island Park, found out May 30 that long-held notions of where it's OK for United States citizens to fish no longer apply. While fishing a favorite spot in the Gananoque Narrows with a friend, his boat was boarded and then "seized" by Canadian Border Services Agency officers.

"I was dumbfounded," Mr. Anderson, 22, Baldwinsville, said. "My dad's 67 years old and he's fished there his whole life without a problem."

According to Mr. Anderson, officers came aboard his boat and checked his $83 Canadian fishing license, which he always carries, and checked for outstanding criminal warrants, of which there were none. Trouble started when Mr. Anderson was asked if he had reported his presence in Canada at a port of entry, which he had not. At the time, he was less than a quarter-mile into Canadian waters.
"I was told, 'If you are in Canadian waters, you should be running toward a port of entry. If you're not running toward a port of entry, you are in violation of the law,'" he said.

Mr. Anderson, who fishes the narrows daily in the summer, said he had been checked previously by Ontario Provincial Police and Canadian game wardens and was always left with the impression that, as long as he was not anchored or otherwise on shore, he was doing nothing illegal.

This time, his boat was searched for contraband and seized and he was told that it would cost him $1,000 to get it back. If he could not immediately come up with the money, he would be placed in handcuffs and made to lie on his stomach while his boat was towed to shore in Canada, where he could face a fine of up to $25,000 under the Canadian Customs Act.

"I had to pay it on the spot," Mr. Anderson said. "They seized my boat and I had to buy it back on the spot."

The Canadian Customs Act states that penalties "shall become payable on the day the notice of assessment of the penalty is served on the person." It also gives border agents the authority to seize a boat "as forfeit."

Chris J. Kealey, a spokesman for the Canadian Border Services Agency, said if the penalty is not able to be paid on the water, "the alternative is they can seize the vessel pending payment of the penalty."

Mr. Anderson said that his boat is old and "not worth much," so "I was thinking about letting them just take it." After a phone call to his father, Michael, he agreed to pay the money using a credit card.

"Usually I don't have my wallet with me out there," he said. "Thank God I had a credit card with enough on it so I could get my boat back."

Sean R. Magers, a spokesman for Rep. William L. Owens, D-Plattsburgh, said the congressman has been made aware of Mr. Anderson's plight and has "reached out" to the Canadian Embassy on the matter.

Mr. Magers said the congressman's interpretation of the statute involved exempts fishermen, as it states that it does not apply to a person entering Canadian waters "directly from one place outside of Canada to another place outside of Canada."

David A. McCrea, a charter captain out of Henderson who fishes frequently in Canada, said "there's no rhyme nor reason" to be found in the enforcement of the Canadian fishing and boating regulations. He said calls to the border agency's Canadian Passenger Accelerated Service System, or CANPASS, which is designed to expedite the customs and immigration process, rarely provides a satisfactory answer as to what is and isn't allowed.

"You call that number five times and get five different answers," he said. "You just keep calling back until you get the answer you're looking for and then you get that guy's badge number."

Russell A. Finehout, a Clayton fishing guide, said he has had a Canadian fishing license for 55 years and it has always been a general rule among guides and other fishermen that if you had a license and weren't anchored, you could fish in Canadian waters without declaring your presence to customs.

"I've never been stopped by Canadian customs in all my years of fishing and I'm 74 years' old," he said.

Mr. Finehout said he recently visited the Canadian customs office at Landsdowne, Ontario, and was told that American fishermen are expected to report into the country at points in either Gananoque, Ivy Lea or Rockport.

"That makes it pretty much impossible for us to fish because of the time wasted going all the way over there to check in and then back to where you want to fish. That's a couple hours wasted, plus the extra expense for the gas."

Mr. Finehout said he was also told at the meeting that the rules apply not just to fishermen, but to all boaters, even people who unwittingly drift into Canadian waters without realizing they have crossed the international border.

"They don't want us to go over there. It's quite apparent to me," he said. "It'll be the last time I buy a Canadian fishing license."

I sure hope that the two governments can get together on this. Question for the north side of the border....have you been approached by US Immigration/Customs for boating/fishing in US waters without signing in?

I think it is utterly ridiculous if we are not landing on Canadian soil, to be forced to land to call in and report. You are not allowed to report by cell phone, so you have to touch land to report in, kind of a catch twenty-two, because then when you come back into the states, you have to land and report back into us customs. I have already heard that some bass tournaments have been canceled, people are going to quit buying Ontario fishing licenses. This is not good for fisherman from either side of the border.

I suppose if you are a Canadian citizen and you cross into US waters, do you then have to check in when you cross back into Canada?

_________________
Daren

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U.S.C.G. Licensed Captain
Pure Fishing Ambassador

dllm413 this is the first case off about 1/2 a dozen that i have heard of, that have been americans getting the fine's, the rest have been canadians in american water. check past posts.. its simple go to the boarder get a nexus card....... they are cracking down on both sides.... this isnt new laws...

Fireball having a nexus card dont make it any easier.......... you still have to report and if you dont you are in the same violation of non report reguardless. and show us in print where any canadian has been approched and fined for fishing us waters without reporting in! . this really isnt about canadians, or americans its about guys fishing and being hassled. basically ROBBED of there cash with a strong arm tactic for doing nothing wrong......... its an imaginary line out there buddy. and the government is on a money grab either side the St Laurance is a 1000 yard streatch that runs hundreds of miles and Fat cats in there big lake cruzers border hop all the time with NO HASSLES.......... but they wanna pray on a lil guy in a fishing boat.... soon they could hand out 5.000 tickets when the tall ships go into kinston. you think they will be out in force handing out tickets ??? very doubtfull , dont piss on my back and tell me its raining!

Nexus card doesnt solve the problem and boaters from neither side should be getting hassled. This may be the first case published on here about us getting stopped by Canadians, but not the first instance, I have heard of other instances where they have been stopped on Canadian side but the fine and treatment was ridiculous. We both should be able to use the international waters without any hassle as lone as we do not land on the shore.

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Daren

exactly dllm413........... and ill go one more should not connect with any other boats either while out there unless both boats are canadian or american just to take away any possibility of passing off goods from one boat to another. bottom line is if yer NOT LANDED you should not have to report in. as i said its just a money grab, both of our governments have figured out a way to line there pockets without adding more taxes to an already over taxed society!

Totally agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Daren

say what you want, but nexus isnt a new thing, and its still only a cell phone call (as far as i know)..... you are bang on when you say they arent going to be stopping the big yatchs, just us poor fisherman, so get on the ball, and play there game... the fish dont just jump in the boat either, (asian carp arent here yet), we play the fishes game, just like on the 401, there is big sections that there is never any cops, so people allways drive like 130-140, or at least thats how i feels when i am in the right lane and i wounder if my car stopped moving because they flew by so fast. its the same game, just because it wasnt policed, does it make it right ??
i agree with them doing boat checks 100%, but looking for drugs etc, i think the 1000 dollar fine and if you cant pay it on the spot they impound your boat, this is retarded, but wait a second, we are talking about it on here, and every other fishing forum is talking about it, so its really getting the message accross now isnt it ??

I live in kingston, get your map out, look how close we are to the states, I fish both sides, i have been asked for landing numbers, a few times, allways had them, because i called and reported in.. (was never asked near the border thou, i was clearly on the other side)

there is more drugs etc, smuggled accross this border then any other in the world, but it is 4,000 miles long. so one of the biggest as well...

This is the United States' forgotten border, where federal agents and police play cat-and-mouse with smugglers and illegal immigrants along 4,000 miles of a mostly unmarked and unfortified frontier with Canada. Unlike the southern border with Mexico, where drug-related violence has exploded in recent years, the northern border rarely makes headlines
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 23024.html

this is from the post i had made before this one about this problem, i am trying to help spread the word...

Remember all these cases are hear say, even the one from the paper as they lack evdence.

Case #2 was reported to Mary at Caiger’s by a regular customer who said it happened to member of his family ( I have no proof to confirm this ). A guy on a PWC went from Canada to Boldt Castle, just to look at it from the water. He drove around it and decided to stop on the water to look at it more closely. While stopped on the water he never touched land or anchored. He was stopped by US border patrol and given a $300 ticket for illegal entry into the US. The customer that told Mary the story went to customs at Boldt Castle to inquire about the law and the officer on duty said that he knew nothing about the law. The ticket was written by a different agency.


Apparently there are laws on the books in both countries that say if you are not under way you are considered to have landed and they have been there for ever but have not been enforced. This should make for an interesting season for tournament anglers and recreational fishermen. We need to spread the word and get some form of ruling from those in power.


Tight Lines
Doug
amos


There was a guy in my fishing club that got a ticket as well, he brought it to are last meeting last month...

All we can do is help others, so they dont get tickets too........

Exceptions to Face-to-Face reporting to CBP
Alternative Inspection Systems (AIS) satisfy the boat operator’s legal requirement to report for face-to-face inspection in accordance with 8 CFR 235.1, but boaters must still phone in their arrival to satisfy 19 USC 1433.

There are four exceptions to the face-to-face inspection at a designated reporting location, NEXUS, Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit (I-68), Outlying Area Reporting Stations (OARS), and the Local Boater Option (Miami, Tampa, and San Juan). Participation in any of the programs does not preclude the requirement for physical report upon request by U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Any small pleasure vessel leaving a United States port into international or foreign waters, without a call at a foreign port, does not satisfy the foreign departure requirement. Therefore, certain fishing vessels, cruises to nowhere, or any vessel that leaves from a United States port and returns without calling a foreign port or place, has not departed the United States.


NEXUS
NEXUS Marine program is a joint Canada-U.S. initiative that offers facilitated customs and immigration clearance for recreational low-risk boaters entering either country through registration into the program. NEXUS is valid for 5 years and satisfies the boat operator’s legal requirement to report to a port-of-entry for face-to-face inspection in accordance with 8 CFR 235.1, but boaters must still phone in their arrival to satisfy 19 USC 1433.


Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit (I-68)
Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit (I-68) applicants for admission into the United States by small pleasure boats are inspected and issued an I-68 permit for the entire boating season. The I-68 permit allows boaters to enter the United States from Canada for recreational purposes with only the need to report to CBP by telephoning in their arrival.


Outlying Area Reporting System (OARS)
OARS is another northern border method for boaters to report entry to satisfy 19USC and 8CFR requirements into the United States from Canada. The OARS program uses videophones, typically located at public marinas, which boaters may use to report to CBP.


Local Boater Option (LBO)
Local Boater Option (Miami, Tampa, and San Juan) is a voluntary effort that will allow eligible, frequent pleasure boat operators and passengers, who are U.S. Citizens or Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs) of the United States, to register themselves and their vessel with CBP. The Local Boater Option offers facilitated customs and immigration clearance for recreational low-risk boaters at time of arrival. Enrollment to the LBO Program is voluntary and will allow CBP to expedite the arrival reporting process to boaters who have enrolled into the program. This program will satisfy the boat operator’s legal requirement to report to a port-of-entry for face-to-face inspection in accordance with 8 CFR 235.1, but boaters must still phone in their arrival to satisfy 19 USC 1433.


Boats for Display, Testing, or Race
Vessels that are entered into the United States for display at boat shows, testing, to take part in a race (not for money) and will not be in the United States for more than 90 days, may be admitted without formal consumption entry or bond. A certificate identifying the boat will be issued to the importer and must be delivered with the vessel to the CBP office at the point of departure from the country. If a vessel entered for such purposes will be in the country for more than 90 days the importer will be required to post a bond. Any boats entered for sale or for sale on approval are not eligible for the Temporary Importation Under Bond (TIB) program and must be entered as a formal entry on a form CF7501.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/pleas ... erview.xml

still a bunch of horse cocky we are talking about a guy fishing for christ sakes and was hasseled for no reason then robbed at gun point! buy a man with a badge! when is the last time you read or even heared about a boat being stopped by officials that was full of beer, booze,drugs,??un patrolled borders is right but you best hope one day when you call in with yer nexus card they dont say ok report to rochester cause we want a face to face. how will you feel then ?? will you feel the same way ? I think the best thing to do is flood the phone lines with phone calls of fishermen just so they can say Sheesh what the hell were we thinking!

i hear about people getting $200 fines all the time for having open liquior in the boat..
what can i say i have a family that likes to drink, and go for boat rides, they find a disnated driver, and go cruise around..
if the cops stop you its a $200 fine.. i am talking on back lakes... 200 / 8 people is 25 buck each..
but they arent crossing a international border illegaly...
Its bullshit,but its not new.... i am strong beliver that you can play the game, but if you get caught, you deserve the fine, i know a guy that didnt have car insurance for years, he had be busted for drunk driving, so his insurance went up to like 400 a month..
so he couldnt afford it, he went 3 years before getting caught.. got a 5000 fine...

I agree to go fishing you shouldnt, but you do, and its not new, i allso think, you shouldnt need a american license to fish the other side of lake ontario. or a canadian one if you are america and have a ny state licence... fish swim back and forth on both sides of the border, where are there passports ???

If when i made my phone call, they told me i had to report into rochester, i would hang up the phone, call again hoping to get a different officers... or just not go.. the phone call is made from home.. i went accross tonight, no issues..

I have no problem at all being stopped, checked out, searched etc on the water. I do have a problem with having to run to a "check in point" to either sign in or call in, on shore, when I have not desire to be on shore for any other purpose.

I am sure it will all work out in the long run..

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Daren

It's too bad there aren't any of the old rum runners who ran the river during prohibition who could relate to this story. There is probably still cases of whiskey on the bottom of the river. As the link to the Huffington Post above indicates I'm sure it's going to get tighter as time goes on.

This is only one reported incident, and only one side's version of events of that one incident. When a 22 year old guy and his 'friend' get the book thrown at them by law enforcement officers, quite often there is another very different version of events that makes everything make sense. At least that has been my experience both as a former LEO, and a former 22 year old guy.